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Towed but legally parked? How is this legal?
On Lawyer & Legal » Traffic Law
16,073 words with 12 Comments; publish: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:39:00 GMT; (800109.38, « »)
The state is: ? California
I was out at Dockweiler Beach about 2 weeks ago to shoot some video footage of a girl at a campfire. We arrived around 11pm. I drove around and realized that after 10pm there aren't many places to park on Vista del Mar. So I turned back on to Imperial Highway and noticed a parking spot. No signs indicating no parking and the curb was grey in between two clearly marked red zones from each end of the curb. Parked. Walked to the beach. Shot footage for about 2 hours.
Then walked back and my car was gone. I called 411, got LAPD on the line and they said the El Segundo police dept. had towed my car. Called a cab, went to police dept., paid my fine, $35, and was told I was towed under Vehicle Code 22651 (B).
I was told I couldn't get my car out because the tow company wasn't open for business but could go get essential things out of my car. Took the cab there. Took the cab back to Echo Park. Cab fare $92.50 w/tip.
Went to get my car the next day, paid approx. $160. Called the El Segundo police dept. to request a hearing to determine the legality of my tow.
They told me to write the city clerk's office for reimbursement. Called the city clerk. They were confused but told me to download a form and turn it in stating my reasons. I was confused too since the legality of the tow still hadn't been determined. So, I call the ESPD again and requested that someone look at the photos I'd taken of the spot and the statement from my passenger to determine if this was legal.
Go down the next day, meet with the cop who is conducting my informal hearing (not the cop who removed my vehicle). Show him pictures, argue with him, he won't state if it's a parking spot or not and claims that I was 3-4 ft. in the road thereby causing a hazard.
I state that cars when they are legally parked can take up a whole lane of traffic and if you can't park there without causing a hazard why did they not paint the curb red or post any signs? Also, this all happened outside of El Segundo jurisdiction. On top of that, I was out there scouting for 3 hours on Sunday night to early Monday morning and was not towed or ticketed.
I feel this cop doesn't know the law and was extremely unqualified to determine the legality of anything.
How do I get my money back? Can I sue the city of El Segundo?
I'm dead set on fighting this. I feel I have a clear cut case but have no idea how to get this into court since there was no ticket issued.The state is: ?
http://trafficlaw.itags.org/q_traffic-law_170707.html
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- 12 Comments
- All that the section requires is that the vehicle be parked in such a manner that it is a hazard, and it permits the tow ...
(b) When a vehicle is parked or left standing upon a highway in a position so as to obstruct the normal movement of traffic or in a condition so as to create a hazard to other traffic upon the highway.
You can always make a claim to the agency and then take them to Small Claims court. The officer might then be compelled to articulate the circumstances justifying the tow.
Note that the fact that no other vehicles have been towed or impounded is not evidence that your tow was improper or unlawful.
#1; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:38:00 GMT
- Perhaps the laws have changed, but that was my experience with tow truck drivers when I lived in CA.Quote:This is patently unlawful in California and the LAPD has a unit dedicated to pursuing such predatory tows. I doubt this is what happened here as the OP alleged that the El Segundo PD had the vehicle towed not some private tow company doing it on their own (which they can't).#2; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:13:00 GMT
- I guess my questions boil down to this:
1. If there is a grey space in between two red curbs and not a single no parking sign is sight, you're parked within 18 inches of the curb (for all intensive purposes legally parked), can your car be legally towed for creating a hazard? Basically what the cop is telling me is that anyone that is legally parked there is still creating a hazard (unless it's a motorcycle I suppose). Note this road is 4 lanes (2 in each direction). So it's not as if I'm impeding traffic. There's about 100 ft. of red curb before the grey curb where my car was parked. So there's more than enough room to notice the car.
2. Is it not the responsibility of the city/state/whatever to mark those areas where parked cars create a hazard as no parking zones/tow zones? They painted the curb red all around it so why not paint that section red? It appears to me like every section of every road that you can't park in is marked somewhere somehow. Why not this section if no one can park there?
How do I go about doing this? What court do I take them to? The El Segundo PD towed me but the car was parked in the city of Los Angeles.Quote:You can always make a claim to the agency and then take them to Small Claims court. The officer might then be compelled to articulate the circumstances justifying the tow.#3; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:53:00 GMT
- Under the right circumstances, sure. Not seeing the scene, I can't say whether it was reasonable or not. You can make this argument in a civil court. Since the judgment is a subjective one, the officer will have to articulate the reason for the tow under that authority section. If a judge agrees with you that there was no reasonable cause for the tow, a judgment will likely be levied against the city.Quote:1. If there is a grey space in between two red curbs and not a single no parking sign is sight, you're parked within 18 inches of the curb (for all intensive purposes legally parked), can your car be legally towed for creating a hazard?It is not about "notice" it is about a hazard. If "legally" parked there, does any part of the vehicle obstruct or dangerously constrict the outside lane? Do you know how wide that outside lane is?Quote:
There's about 1 ft. of red curb before the grey curb where my car was parked. So there's more than enough room to notice the car. No. It makes enforcement easier, but there is no legal requirement that they paint ANY curb. Painting can be costly. Can you imagine the cost of painting every corner curb in a city? Or every no parking space near a fire hydrant? Hole smokes!Quote:2. Is it not the responsibility of the city/state/whatever to mark those areas where parked cars create a hazard as no parking zones/tow zones? You can certainly ask the city Planning or Roads department (or whoever handles such things where you live) why they chose not to paint that area, but the answer might not help you.
Here are a couple of links with information that might help you in a small claims action:Quote:How do I go about doing this? What court do I take them to? The El Segundo PD towed me but the car was parked in the city of Los Angeles. California Courts: Self-Help Center: Small Claims
#4; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:08:00 GMT
- You seem to misunderstand the meaning of the colors.
A red curb is a fire lane. It means no parking, stopping, or standing, there. The area outside the fire lane may indeed also be a travel lane that you may not park in.
#5; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:24:00 GMT
- Don't know the area or much about California parking laws, but I just wanted to make a couple of comments.I am not saying you were illegally parked, but I don't know why people think something like that is an excuse. Maybe it's luck but it doesn't make illegal behavior legal. Doing something illegal for hours, weeks, or years and not getting caught is not a green light to continue doing the same thing without fear of enforcement.Quote:On top of that, I was out there scouting for 3 hours on Sunday night to early Monday morning and was not towed or ticketed.#6; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:08:00 GMT
- Don't assume. Maybe they had better things to do.Quote:The argument of having parked there for 3 hours on a previous night and not getting towed is like this: police officers were patrolling that area the night the car was parked there, so were parking officers and they certainly did think it was in the way. If they did, then they would have towed it.#7; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:25:00 GMT
- You can park in lanes of traffic all over Los Angeles. I drive down right hand lanes all of the time and . . . boom, there's a car legally parked and I've got to switch lanes and go around it. Is is dangerous? I suppose if you've never lived here and don't know what's going on.Quote:
Not sure if signs need to be posted in a case like that. If you park at the curb and by doing so you block a lane of traffic I would think it would be intuitive that one should not park there, even if the motivation is to not have your car smacked up.
I am not saying you were illegally parked, but I don't know why people think something like that is an excuse. Maybe it's luck but it doesn't make illegal behavior legal. Doing something illegal for hours, weeks, or years and not getting caught is not a green light to continue doing the same thing without fear of enforcement.
The argument of having parked there for 3 hours on a previous night and not getting towed is like this: police officers were patrolling that area the night the car was parked there, so were parking officers and they certainly did think it was in the way. If they did, then they would have towed it.
#8; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:30:00 GMT
- This is patently unlawful in California and the LAPD has a unit dedicated to pursuing such predatory tows. I doubt this is what happened here as the OP alleged that the El Segundo PD had the vehicle towed not some private tow company doing it on their own (which they can't).Quote:Here is something else to consider...
Some tow truck drivers literally go out hunting at night looking for cars illegally parked because it is so lucrative. I had two roommates a long time ago who did this and they would usually patrol apartment complexes where they had a contract for towing anyone parking in the wrong spot, or where the apartment was "open," i.e., no exclusive with a towing company. They would also check out areas where they knew people parked illegally.
#9; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:30:00 GMT
- That must have been quite some time ago. I've been in law enforcement for nearly two decades and in that time tow drivers have never been allowed to legally nab cars off the street. It became a problem on private property in Los Angeles and about ten years ago (or thereabouts) they started going after these pirate tows with gusto.Quote:Perhaps the laws have changed, but that was my experience with tow truck drivers when I lived in CA.
But, this was not a private property impound, this was a law enforcement impound.
#10; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:57:00 GMT
- But it doesn't have anything to do with the subject in THIS thread.Quote:Perhaps the laws have changed, but that was my experience with tow truck drivers when I lived in CA.#11; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:44:00 GMT
- Here is something else to consider...
Some tow truck drivers literally go out hunting at night looking for cars illegally parked because it is so lucrative. I had two roommates a long time ago who did this and they would usually patrol apartment complexes where they had a contract for towing anyone parking in the wrong spot, or where the apartment was "open," i.e., no exclusive with a towing company. They would also check out areas where they knew people parked illegally.
And then, you have the drivers that will sometimes take a car parked LEGALLY and then say it was parked in another spot illegally. That happened to me in college - I parked at my girl friend's apartment complex one night and my car got towed. I parked in the same visitor spot I always used (and no, I hadn't been out drinking or was otherwise impaired when I parked), but I had no way of proving it. And, I didn't have the financial resources to fight it, so I had to just suck it up and pay to get back my stolen vehicle.
So, reading the original post, my first thought was that a towing company (or one it's drivers) might be taking legally parked cars and claiming they were illegally parked. Lots of people will just end up paying the fees and won't fight about it, so it could be a good money making scheme for a less than ethical tow truck driver. And, to be honest, I know there are good and decent tow truck drivers out there, but I have met and known some that were barely human.
#12; Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:50:00 GMT